转录文件 — BBC Newsnight (1991) - Vivienne Westwood 采访
本地源: 04_视频\B_采访与纪录\03_本人采访_BBC_Newsnight_1991\Newsnight archives (1991) - Vivienne Westwood [dzYFJoicmj0].mp4
转录: faster-whisper base（本地离线，英文语音识别），2026-09-11，SUB-WESTWOOD
识别语言: en (p=0.80) | 音频时长 5.8 分钟 | 处理耗时 0.5 分钟
注: 机器转录，可能有误听；引用站内时以时间戳核对原声为准。

[00:00] Well, we're joined now from Bristol by the fashion historian Colin McDowell, and here in the studio is the leading Britain British fashion designer this year, Vivian Westwood.
[00:09] I suppose that was rather poof-face where he's looking at you could say that these are all works of art, I suppose, couldn't you?
[00:15] And what did we, we didn't ask what art was for?
[00:19] Um, well, I don't know. Sorry.
[00:23] Well, look, let me start by asking you a simple question. How do you justify the preservation of this industry if such it is, when it serves such little purpose?
[00:42] It's, it's very important, um, Couture is very important, and sorry, I think can we just start this thing again?
[00:56] Sure, no, I'll ask, I'll ask Colin McDowell.
[00:59] Yeah, I'm really sorry, but no, no, it's no problem, Colin McDowell, when you, when you look at the staggering sums of money involved in this, and the very small market, are you surprised it's in crisis?
[01:10] No, not at all. Um, I think that all of the art in crisis in one way or another because they cost more and more money, and the returns seem less and less.
[01:20] So when someone says to you, we don't ask the question, what is art for? Why do we ask the question, what fashion is for? What do you say?
[01:28] Well, I say you don't, uh, you don't view fashion as an art, you view it as a practical entity in the way that you would view a car.
[01:36] There's no point to talk to having a beautiful car if it doesn't work. There's no point to talk to having beautiful clothes if they can't be worn.
[01:42] Do you shed any tears over the decline of the Paris fashion industry, if that's what it is?
[01:48] I don't think we're seeing the decline of the Paris fashion industry, the real guts and determination and importance of fashion now is in Pritapporte, that is in ready to wear.
[01:57] It comes from Milan, it comes from London, it comes from Vivian herself, it comes from Paris also, it comes from New York.
[02:04] Um, I don't think that the guts and the spirit of fashion any longer come from El Couture.
[02:09] So Vivian, what do you think we would lose if, if El Couture is went out of business?
[02:13] I'd just like to sort of say that, I'd like to sort of give my idea of what El Couture is in order to get my, my working on this thing.
[02:22] And it is really true that an awful lot of them are really money, um, packages, they're glamour packages to sell handbags, etc.
[02:35] Um, and I think that this is because these fashion houses have got this formula that they do, they don't need to work with creativity anymore.
[02:45] Most of the fashion houses, a good part of them are fronted by people, um, using the name of somebody who's now dead.
[02:55] And the things that they're doing, those poor people would be turning in their graves.
[02:59] It's just getting more and more crude in order to give this sort of glamour to, to sell handbags.
[03:06] It's just getting crude, hold on a second, sorry.
[03:09] Um, now then, sorry, yeah, go on.
[03:12] And what would you mean when you say it's become crude?
[03:14] Um, people aren't actually even working with the body, let alone thinking that a body is actually going to wear them in, in the future.
[03:23] In the, in the practical and comfortable.
[03:25] The fashion houses actually don't want any customers, a lot of them.
[03:29] They don't because even to have a customer is going to, I mean, you've got the prototype that you've already lost a fortune on the prototype.
[03:37] If you make one to fit a customer, you lose, you'll even more money.
[03:42] And so they're not actually, they don't have the idea of selling to women in mind.
[03:47] On the other hand, there are a few people still caring very much that they can make something for a woman.
[03:54] And they know that when she goes somewhere in it, nobody will look as wonderful as this woman.
[04:00] Colin McDally, you're surprised by any of that.
[04:02] No, I'm not. I think it's pretty much standard, um, standard fashion thinking at the moment.
[04:07] I believe myself that couture is totally outdated, and there's really very little point in it.
[04:12] Um, I don't think that it does keep standards, um, particularly high.
[04:17] I think if you look at couture clothes that were made in the 50s and you look at couture clothes that are made now, they're just not the same thing at all.
[04:23] The workmanship isn't there, and as Vivian says quite rightly, the workmanship isn't there because there is not at the end of it, a demanding customer, saying I don't look right or I don't feel right in this dress.
[04:34] The clothes are made to be photographed, to appear in the glossy magazines, to keep the name high and therefore to be able to sell all of the other things, which as Vivian says are all the packages that make the money.
[04:47] But you can't make money, but it's still indulged in because people are gullible, and they like glamour.
[04:53] Vivian, we quoted you earlier in the program as saying to you, thought it was the duty of all rich women to patronize couture.
[05:02] Why do you think that?
[05:05] Because if they did, then couture would have a life.
[05:12] But the point is that they probably would have to pay at least double that the fashion houses are even asking because the fashion houses would need to make money.
[05:21] And it's just a whole sort of the difference between poor and rich today, we might think that it's very great it is, but the rich in the past had an intellectual and a cultural snobbery, and they were prepared to actually pay more money for clothes than people are today.
[05:41] Vivian, worst with Conning McDowell, thank you both very much, thanks.